Izet

iz zbirke "Morija" Abdulaha Sidrana

nije
njegovo srce
još bilo za umiranja
ima nas podosta
sa još bolesnijom
srčanom pumpom
po sarajevu
kako tako
živi koračamo
mogao je
samo da je htio
još poživjeti
veliki pjesnik
zanosne Epohe
pedesetih godina
dvadesetog stoljeća
ali ga je bila
napustila Ona
Mala Jedina moja
bez koje nije
ni htio ni umio
o ljubavi pjevati
moglo je još
kucati njegovo srce
ali
srce njegovoga srca
nije
ni željelo ni htjelo
bez mikice
kucati

Biografija

Izet Sarajlić je rođen 1930. u Doboju. Njegova majka, koja tada nije imala ni 18 godina, udala se za željezničara, jer je bila impresionirana uniformom, koja je u to vrijeme bila "statusni simbol", kako će kasnije zapisati sam pjesnik. Izet Sarajlić je dobio ime po djedu s očeve strane, koji je bio činovnik za vrijeme Austro-Ugarske monarhije. Djetinjstvo je proveo u Trebinju i Dubrovniku, a 1945. se nastanjuje u Sarajevu, u kojem će ostati sve do kraja života, 2002. U Sarajevu je pohađao mušku gimnaziju, a u svijet jugoslovenske poezije ulazi kao devetnaestogodišnjak, zbirkom poezije U susretu. Za vrijeme studija na Filozofskom fakultetu u Sarajevu, radio je i kao novinar i nikada nije prestajao pisati.

Bio je član Akademije nauka i umjetnosti Bosne i Hercegovine i udruženja intelektualaca Krug 99. Objavio je preko 30 knjiga poezije od kojih su neke prevedene na 15 jezika. Pojedinačno i u širim izborima, pjesme Izeta Sarajlića prevedene su na brojne svjetske jezike, a zasebna izdanja njegove poezije objavljena su na makedonskom (1965, 1980), slovenačkom, ruskom (1972, 1985), turskom (1974, 1990), engleskom, albanskom, litvanskom, španskom, njemačkom i drugim jezicima. Poljski pjesnik Marian Gženščak u predgovoru svom izboru iz Sarajlićeve poezije, objavljenom u varšavskom časopisu "Svjetska književnost", kaže da je "Sarajlić narodni pjesnik koji sve zna i koji je u stanju da od svega sačini pjesmu". Visoko mišljenje o poeziji Izeta Sarajlića iskazali su i mnogi drugi poznati pjesnici - Evgenij Jevtušenko, Melih Dževdet, nobelovac Josif Brodski, Alfonso Gato i drugi. Blaže Koneski, prvo ime makedonske poezije, govoreći o Izetu Sarajliću kao o jednom od onih rijetkih pjesnika današnjice koji su uspjeli da "stvore svoj sopstveni model pjesme", kaže: " u krugu moje lektire ja ne vidim, osim Sandberga, drugog pjesnika koji se toliko približio proznom iskazu a pritom djelovao takvom poetskom neposrednošću."
Iz književne Sarajlićeve biografije vrijedi pomenuti i dva podatka: njegovo isključenje is Saveza pisaca Jugoslavije 1953. godine i njegov izbor za predsjednika Udruženja književnika BiH (1970), na kojoj je funkciji ostao samo SEDAMNAEST DANA. Zanimljiv je i podatak da je Izet Sarajlić naš najzastupljeniji pjesnik kad su u pitanju svjetske antologije poezije, ali i to da u jednoj sarajevskoj antologiji iz sedamdesetih godina nema nijedne pjesme. Nagradu Udruženja književnika BiH za 1964. godinu odbio je da primi.
Vjerovao je da pripada XX stoljeću pa kada je stiglo XXI, na pismima koja je pisao prijateljima, datume je označavao na sebi svojstven način: 1999+1, 1999+2… Čitajući njegovu poeziju, saznajemo da su smrt njegovog brata Eše, koji je strijeljan 1942. i susret sa Idom Kalas Mikicom, životnom saputnicom, dva najsnažnija pjesnikova životna iskustva. U "Volim puno" pjeva o ljubavi i prijateljstvu, o jednoj epohi. Ova serija poetske proze je u najvećoj mjeri portret njegove supruge Mikice, prekrasne, mudre žene, koja je zahvaljujući njemu zauvijek ušla u svijet književnosti.
Izrasla iz duha vremena u kojem je živio, uvijek aktualna i bliska, poezija Izeta Sarajlića oplemenjuje svakog svog čitatelja. Nije potrebno tragati za estetskim doživljajem, on je pred čitateljem u svakoj Sarajlićevoj pjesmi. Slatko-gorku pjesničku intonaciju, prepoznatljivu upravo kod Izeta Sarajlića, naći ćemo kasnije kod mnogih bh pjesnika. Niko nije toliko utjecao na suvremeno bh. pjesništvo kao Izet Sarajlić. Njegov stih je jednostavan, istinit, bez suvišne dekorativnosti i retorike.
Elegičnost kao najizrazitija crta Sarajlićeve emocionalnosti, njegovo poimanje života uopće i ljubav kao neizbježni light motiv, često upućuju na romantičnu Jesenjinovu poeziju. U svakoj njegovoj pjesmi ljubav doživljava svoju punu afirmaciju. Široka otvorenost i ljubav prema cijelom svijetu odišu iz svakog njegovog stiha. Izrazito romantičan, Sarajlić ne stvara apstraktni romantičarski ideal ljubavi. Naprotiv, njegova ljubav gotovo uvijek je stvarna i ostvarena, a najčešće je istinit i ambijent u kojem govori o ljubavi. Stoga se u najvećem dijelu njegove poezije osjeća idilična slika ljubavne i obiteljske harmonije prenesene iz svakodnevnog života, a to ga opet približava poeziji Jacquesa Preverta. Izvanrednu i trajnu popularnost njegova je poezija dostigla upravo zahvaljujući jednostavnosti izraza prožetog dubokom osjećajnošću.

Nagrade

Dvadesetsedmojulska 1963.
Disova plaketa 1982.
Zmajeva nagrada 1985.
Nagrada Branko Miljković 1987.
Nagrada ZAVNOBiH za životno djelo, 1989.
Fund for Free Expression Award U.S.A. 1993.
Italijanska nagrada Mediterranneo, 1997.
Nagrada ''Erguvan' '- Turska, Istanbul, 1997.
Premio Finaleinsieme, Modena, Italia, 1998.
Nagrada Alberto Moravija, Italija, 2001.
Šestoaprilska nagrada Grada Sarajeva, 2002.
Počasni građanin grada Salerna, Italija, 2002.

My East, the one I was emotionally tied to, died in 1991.

(November 13, 1995 Vreme News Digest Agency No 215)

Poet Izet Sarajlic will soon publish his second book written in Sarajevo at war - the Book of Goodbyes. "The book is horrifying, one of the final ones, and I would love for people in Belgrade to read it," he told VREME. In this interview Sarajlic spoke about his "former love" Belgrade and Sarajevo today.

How did you end up in this war?

How did we all? That we should ask the Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts and the general staff of the former Yugoslav National Army (JNA). To expand, Hitler used much less brutality to conquer foreign territories. And he never conquered them. General Mladic, at the very least, thought he was Napoleon. A simple man like that would hardly be fit to be a stable boy in Zhukov's army!

Why didn't you leave Sarajevo?

Where would Sarajlic go except Sarajevo?

You believed in people, have you stopped believing in this war?

Not in people, but it seems we have a deficit of human beings here.

Some in this war have accused you of being a man of the East, emotionally tied to Belgrade, to Russia. Have you become a man of the West?

I'm sorry to have to say this, but my East, the one I was emotionally tied to, died in 1991.

Which city disappointed you the most, and which surprised you the best?

In terms of goodness and emotions, solidarity with our suffering, rational Ljubljana. My greatest disappointment was, of course, Belgrade. Where did all that hatred come from, so much darkness in a city once so joyful that we all loved?

As a poet I would also say this. Skender Kulenovic wrote "Stojanka Mother of Knezopolje" in 1942. How is it that Matija Beckovic didn't even ask himself whether it is time for him to write a Moslem version of Skender's poem in 1992. Moslem mothers perhaps don't need that poem as much as ordinary Serb poets.

You received letters from Europe, the US, even Chile. Were there similar letters from Belgrade?

Except for dear Rade Radovanovic, only three brave women wrote to me from Belgrade: Vera Zogovic, Borka Pavicevic and one time Sarajevan Lula whose husband hopefully won't take offense that I only know her maiden name Alicehic. It was very nice to get, even very late, articles written for Nasa Borba and NIN by Branko V. Radicevic and Branislav Petrovic. Together with Ivan Stambolic, Filip David, Stojan Cerovic and Miladin Zivotic that is the only Belgrade I believe in now. The rest of my Belgrade people, I don't know if they have the right to take another exam of love. It's terrible but that's the way things are.

Did you have a chance to meet writers from Belgrade during the war?

Recently in Rovinj, on my way back from Switzerland, I met Mirko Kovac. I'm enjoying his novel which he gave me then. The novel was published in Sarajevo. And where else could a novel be published with so much longing?

We were dying in Sarajevo. Did the death of someone outside Sarajevo touch you?

Not only myself. Everyone in cultured Sarajevo was touched by the death of (Serbian actor and comic) Mija Aleksic. I think there are few older Sarajevans who didn't have a personal day of mourning. I was also painfully touched by the deaths of Milovan Djilas and Slobodan Selenic. Djilas stood on positions worthy of his name all through the war. I thank him for the many kind words about Bosnia I listened to during the worst shelling of the city.

As a poet what did you do in this war?

I wrote two books of poems. The first, "Sarajevo War Collection", had several reprints at home and abroad and the second, "Book of Goodbyes", will soon be published by Goran Mikulic, the son of my friend painter Mario Mikulic who was in the construction business before the war and now has a publishing house. Someone said, not someone but my dear Sinan Gidzevic, that only Izet Sarajlic could have written this book.

Pjesnik i njegov unuk

Marina Achenbach

Duboko dolje u vodi ogleda se bunarski zid. A onda se kanta tiho stocilja, čovjek gore zabacuje je na lancu dok se ne prepuni vodom, izvuče je okretanjem ručice, naliva vodu u jedan bijeli plastični kanister koji mu poture Vladimir i njegov djed. Ovaj bunar nalik je svim seoskim bunarima kakvi su pravljeni stoljećima. Samo kuće ne odgovaraju: petospratne, tamnozelene i masivne, izgrađene pred Prvi svjetski rat pod Austrijancima. Bunar leži u dvorištu jednog stambenog bloka. Slični stari stambeni blokovi tvore dio grada Marindvor, Marienhof, u centru Sarajeva.

Susjedi su kopali bunar u toku drugog ratnog ljeta dok se nije pojavila podzemna voda koja curi između kanalizacije, vodovodnih cijevi, strujnih i telefonskih vodova. Za piće ona nije, njome peru svoje rublje i ispiraju svoje klozete. Nekoliko njih sjedi na smjenu za baštenskim stolom s uloženom šahovskom daskom pod krovom koji su nekad pred rat podigli kao hladnjak. Oni ovdje igraju šah i danas i čuvaju ključ od gvozdenog kapka bunara. Uz ovo dvorište stanuje sada Vladimir, tri i po su mu godine, izbjeglica unutar vlastitog grada. Stan koji su njegovi roditelji bili izgradili u potkrovlju pogođen je jednom granatom i razoren. Ni djedov i bakin stan ispod toga nije više za stanovanje. Ta ranija kuća leži na obronku u dijelu grada Koševo, jedno drvo dopire do prozora. Prozračnija je od grdne najamne kućerine ovdje dolje. To priča baka Mikica koja čezne da se vrati. Vladimir to sigurno više ne zna. Otad je prošla godina dana.

Kad je lupila granata Mikica je s njim upravo bila stigla u podrum. Zgrabila ga je na početku pucnjave i strčala ta tri sprata. Inače ga je uvijek nosila njegova majka Tamara. Ali je toga jednog puta Mikica s djetetom isprednjačila žureći, kao da ju je gonila neka zla slutnja. I poslije godinu dana oni to kazuju kao priču o jednom spasenju. Jer kad je gore malo kasnije eksplodirala granata, djed Kiko i Tamara bili su dospjeli tek na stepenišno odmorište, vazdušni udar izbacio je vrata stana, survala su se skupa s komadima zida po njima oboma. Djed je nakratko izgubio svijest. Kad se probudio preko glave mu je ležao jedan prazan ram za sliku. I on se nasmijao pred užasnutim licem svoje kćeri, jer je sama sebe, pjesnika Izeta Sarajlića, vidio kako tako uramljen leži u kršu.

Vladimir gleda sa prozora kako se djeca šunjaju dvorištem, šćućure se iza bunara, nišane drvenom puškom, jurcaju napolje. Za takvu igru Vladimir je još premalen, ali ga jako privlači. Djed ide sa njim u dvorište. Na sjedištima od auta neki desetogodišnji derani puše duhan u listovima i izmjenjuju čahure kao i bonbone koje im tutnu plavi šljemovi. Vladimir ih bez okolišenja moli da mu daju drvenu pušku, zatečeni njegovom bezazlenošću oni mu stvarno prepuštaju svoju pušku. Onda se predomisle i vrate je Vladimir plače očajan i steže nogu nemoćnoga djeda.

Bolje je vratiti se u visoki stan na spratu kod tetke Raze. Raza Sarajlić, Izetova sestra, prevodilac je italijanske književnosti i docent na univerzitetu. Leži bijela na kauču, bijela kosa, bijela koža. Tankim, velikim rukama drži neku knjigu i čita. Iznad njenog pisaćeg stola visi njen portret kao mlade žene. Onda su linije na njenom licu bile meke, oči velike. Vladimir je ponekad bezobrazan prema Razi, nije lako u tjeskobi biti stalno mio.

Izet ponovo ide s njim ka otvorenom prozoru. Mnoge časove provode tu, oni to zovu ići u šetnju. Zimi umjesto toga obuku mantile i kape, oproste se, idu u ledenu sobu gdje Izet testeriše ormare svojih roditelja i svoje sestre. Na podu bijela piljevina. Oni se naginju kroz prozor.Tamo su oba sami. Ponekad pjevaju. Izet modulira meko i razvučeno narodne pjesme i romanse. Vladimir pjeva nesmetano, trza rukama uvis i zatvara svoja usta. Unutra su dva reda oštrih zubića, koji kao da čekaju na to da blagi dečko jednog dana oko sebe ujeda.

Djed i unuk razgovaraju jedan s drugim. Skriva li Izet pred njim svoje duboko razočarenje? Zašto ne dolaze pisma kao prije? Pisma bi bila znak svjetlosti, topline zrak. Ne postoji, doduše, pošta za Sarajevo, ali ipak ima puteva da se pismo tamo pošalje. Zašto Beograd ćuti? Javio se samo jedan kolega. Treba li možda da drugi pjesnici podrže zločin? Kako se nositi s tim da dolazi pismo od čovjeka iz zapadne Evrope s kojim je samo jednom kratko razgovarao na nekom međunarodnom susretu, dok dugogodišnji prijatelji i znanci ćute? Sarajlić voli pisma kao što voli putovanje i one pjesme koje su nastale putujući, u Varšavi, Parizu, Berlinu, svuda. Ranije je ujutru, kao u ritualu, otvarao pisma, četiri ili pet svakog dana. Posebno voli ona kratka, koja potiču iz iznenadnog osjećanja ili spontane dosjetke. Nema telefona da pita njegdašnje partnere u prepisci jesu li ravnodušni prema njemu i gradu. On se tako u ovim dugim praznim danima oprašta od ljudi koje je susretao tokom mnogih godina.

No, Vladimir još ne zna za žaljenje. Za njega je sve životno gradivo: folija što se kreće na prozoru, palac koji viri kroz rupu na rukavici, vrabac dolje na bunaru. Za to mu je djed zahvalan. Zajedno se prilagođavaju tome svijetu što prelazi u ruševine, a katkad se uplete i pjesma («Pesmica o Tezi Ćil Jarasu»):

Ko ne zna Tezi Ćil Jarasa? Zna ga država cela.
Onog u čijoj poeziji možete sresti i njegove komšije.
Onog koji nikad pred vratima pesme neće ostaviti prijatelja,
pa makar zbog toga pesma zazvučala kojiput i lošije.

Ko ne zna Tezi Ćil Jarasa? Zna ga država cela.
Tezi Ćil Jaras nikako u sebi da nađe i koju reč mržnje.
Svojom potrebom da ih voli on samo ljudima smeta.
Momci koje je upućivao u svet, čim ga spaze, još više svoj korak ispruže.
Sresti Tezi Ćil Jarasa u letnje jutro znači ostati bez leta.
Svojom potrebom da ih voli on samo ljudima smeta.

Ko je Tezi Ćil Jaras? pita Vladimir. Ti ga poznaješ, odgovara djed, de razmisli: T e z i. I Vladimir najednom prepoznaje tu riječ, naravno, obrnutu:

Izet. A on sam je Rimidalv.

Ime Izet Sarajlić pominje se u Sarajevu s nježnošću. Očito ga svako poznaje, žene u Jugobanci, vojnici koji su ranije bili zanatlije, susjetke u drugoj kući.

Dok je on tu, nismo još na kraju, nismo napušteni, to odzvanja iz radosnih uzvika kad se izgovori njegovo ime. On je za njih naprosto pjesnik, pjesnička figura koja im je bliska. Pjesnika te vrste ima dakle još?

*

Dok djed i unuk udišu svjež zrak na prozoru, njegova majka Tamara ćutke pere rublje vodom iz bunara. I Vladimirove pelene. On je već velik, pa ipak pelene. Niko ne želi da ga pritijesni, radije Tamara strpljivo pere, duge kose zastiru joj lice. Njegov otac Đorđe ima službu i stan na drugom kraju grada i dolazi o vikendima. Mikica loži komade namještaja u okrugli gvozdeni šporet koji im je neko ugradio u kuhinju. Postaje vruće, toplota zrači preko hodnika i malčice u sobu u kojoj leži Raza. Kuhinjski zidovi su pocrnili. Mikica kuha riblju čorbu od haringi s paradajz-sosom iz konzervi koje je dijelila Humanitarna pomoć. Nada se da niko neće da se mršti. Nekoliko komadića crvenog luka razdijeli na sve tanjire, to su vitamini. Kad bi ipak mogla ponovo dobiti bijelog luka.

*

Pomalo sam bez daha stigavši do ulaza njihove kuće. Jer tu se prethodno prođe jedno otvoreno raskršće i ulica koja se penje, zaštićena betonskim i gvozdenim pločama od viđenja sa brdâ. Kućni ulaz je oštećen. Kraj ulaza postrani postavljen jedan putnički automobil, jedan zarđali štit. Neko pomenu da je na prvim stepenicama u kući poginuo jedan čovjek. Penjem se uvis do trećeg sprata. Vrata svih stanova imaju kvake i s vanjske strane.. Kad Vladimir spava u podne, na vratima visi cedulja: Molim da ulazite bez kucanja. Dijete spava. Naveče, pak, on ne spava dok je posjeta tu. Posjeta donosi svijet u kuću.

Sarajlići su moja večerna porodica u Sarajevu. Kad se smrači ljudi streme u blizinu svojih stanova. Svi se drže policijskog časa. Ali ja od Sarajlićâ mogu preko dvorišta i kasnije stići do mojih domaćina. Pokucam, otvorim, uđem. Sjaj svijeće treperi kroz stakleno okno kuhinjskih vrata. Porodica i jedna gošća sjede tu. Raza me tiho zove iz polutame svoje sobe. Glas joj je mekan i zvučan kao kod njenog brata Izeta. Sjedam na ivicu njenog kreveta, prije no što me Vladimir otkrije i odvuče u kuhinju.

Gledamo na mutno osvijetljeni prozor i govorimo o Firenci, gdje je Raza doživjela jednu ljubav i jedan rastanak. Kad je svog dragana bila otpravila sa perona i već stajala u vozu, vidjela je kroz prozor jedan drugi par koji se opraštao u velikom bolu. Potom ta žena dođe baš u njen kupe te su na dugom putovanju kazivale jedna drugoj svoje priče. Kasnije su se ponovo susretale na konferencijama, ona kao prevoditeljica, druga spisateljica, i nikad nisu dale do znanja da su se sjećale te vožnje vozom.

Ona priča i nešto o stanu prekoputa, koji pripada jednoj srpskoj porodci. Žena je na početku rata pobjegla sa djecom, muž kasnije dobio oročeno iseljenje, do decembra. Sigurno da neće ponovo doći. Samo se malobrojni vraćaju u pakao. Ali bi mu se, misli ona, morala dati fer šansa i čekati do decembra. Izbjeglice ipak opet provaljuju u stan. Samoorganizovana kućna uprava do sad ih je ponovo iseljavala. Ali danas ne. Od danas su novi ljudi u stanu u kome još stoji sav namještaj, knjige, posuđe. Dolaze sa sela. To je druga seoska porodica u kući, izbjegavaju kontakt sa sustanarima. Tako se kuća mijenja.

«Vidite li ženu sa trakom u kosi?», pita me Raza nakon malo vremena. Ona sjedi iza kuhinjskog okna. «Njen muž je dolje u kućnom ulazu pogođen od granate.» Vidimo je u poluprofilu. «To je bilo prošlog ljeta, kad smo ležali pod stalnom pucnjavom i nismo danima izlazili iz podruma. Porodica ima svoj stan u prizemlju, muž je htio brzo nešto uzeti kad je pogođen na prvom stepeniku. Sigurno ste dolje vidjeli tragove granate?», pita me. Da, pukotine u kamenim stepenicama preko kojih se lako može hodati. «On je još živio. Meso mu je visilo je na ogradi spepeništa. Ona je stajala nad njim i neprestano kazivala samo njegovo ime: «Boro, Boro...» Tako nastaje, dok Raza tiho priča, stvarnost rata koja se može pojmiti samo nakratko, u sekundama, čak u centru grada, da ne govorimo o nekom poimanju iz daljine. Kažem Razi: «Sarajevo mi se čini kao grad koji čeka.» Ona odgovara svojim mirnim, punim glasom: «Varate se, Sarajevo ne čeka, ono umire. Zato ne želim da dalje živim, ne interesuje me više šta dolazi potom.» Jedva da još jede, to je njen neoborivi zaključak, donesen tako mirno i nesentimentalno da ljudi oko nje moraju prihvatiti kako mršavi bez jadanja i, ne gubeći interes za svoje knjige, iščezava.

Tu nas otkrije Vladimir. Gdje ti je džepna lampa?, pita i vuče me u kuhinju.

Pričam o svome danu i svim susretima, to je postalo naš ritual. Vladimir pretražuje moje džepove i sve moje stvari. On ne zna tačno šta sam ja, biće koje je neočekivano izronilo i ponovo će nestati. Svjedokinja kojoj mnogo pričaju. Vjesnica iz nekog drugog svijeta koji budi čežnje odraslih. Pominju se imena gradova i ljudi. Čežnju on osjeća, i ona je slatka. Vladimir fino osjeća da posjeta izvana ima neke veze sa nadom.

On sam je najveća nada. To znaju samo drugi koji vire u njegovo blijedo lice s kao noć crnim očima i čvrstim linijama obrva ponad njih. Pjesnik i njegov unuk preživljavaju kao dva prisna prijatelja ovo beskrajno vrijeme u zatvorenom gradu i čuvaju se od straha, depresije, beznađa. Vladimir je zagonetni budući život.

Ako mu se samo ništa ne desi.

Sarajevo – Berlin, oktobar – novembar 1993.

(Prevod s njemačkog: Stevan Tontić)

"Poetry is on the side of love"

Interview with Izet Sarajlic, Bosnian historian, philosopher, poet
Poetry has been part of your life for half a century. How do you see this art-form today?

Izet Sarajlic: I'm sorry to see that poetry has lost the place it should occupy in people's lives. Poets are partly responsible for this, but the spirit of the age is also to blame. When I was young, Neruda, Sartre, Malraux, Camus, Tuwim, Frost and Ungaretti were the important writers. Living in that world brought responsibilities as well as pleasure; you had to surpass yourself. Imagine having a poem published in a magazine next to one by Neruda! We couldn't afford to be mediocre. In today's literary world, it's not difficult to pass yourself off as a poet. The poet will soon belong to an extinct species. I fear that people will eventually stop reading us altogether.

Are you equally pessimistic about the future of prose?

Izet Sarajlic: Yes, because I think that modern novelists couldn't care less about that essential thing known as love. I can't remember the last heroine I fell in love with. The age of Anna Karenina is gone for good. Today's novelists write against a background of violence, and they want to shock their readers. In modern novels there is a kind of indifference, a failure to connect, whose causes I cannot fathom. Is it because writers are trying to appeal to the culture moguls who announce a "new sensibility" every five years or so?

After the Sarajevo tragedy, I had the opportunity to make several trips abroad. I was amazed to see splendidly bound works by so many nonentities displayed in bookshop windows. There are so many bestsellers and so few great writers. The era of great art is over. It seems as though we've lost the joy of creation.

A Russian poet once said that even sadness is joyful in your poetry. But your recent war poems give the opposite impression.


Izet Sarajlic: The fact is that all values have been turned upside down, not only for me but for everybody. All the old landmarks have gone. Immorality will soon replace moral values and lies will replace truth. This change has happened very quickly. If the world had moved more slowly in this direction (which actually leads to a dead end), people might have had the time to prepare themselves psychologically. But this is impossible because of the speed at which things are moving.

I feel that civilization took a wrong turning about thirty years ago, as if the powers-that-be had pointed it in a direction in which I can see no future. It appals and depresses me that this utter confusion is accepted as the normal human condition.

Was it the war that changed your view of the world?


Izet Sarajlic: To some extent, yes. I've always thought that humanity needed responsible politicians and that there were fewer and fewer of these. It's no accident that the war which has destroyed my former homeland should have happened at a moment in history when there was no longer anyone capable of giving a constructive turn to political events and leading this poor world, so rich in trivia and so poor in basics, into the twenty-first century.

When foreigners who came to Sarajevo during the war asked me what I thought about the West's attitude to Bosnia, I used to tell them that while Tito had had the guts to stand up to the might of Stalin, nobody today - neither the United States, nor France nor Germany - is capable of saying "no" to a local bandit.

The war also taught me something else. It showed me that the behaviour of the world's thinkers is not only irresponsible but immoral. And so was the conduct of some of the generals stationed in Bosnia and Herzegovina. I'm thinking of one of them in particular who was reported to have raped young Muslim girls who were brought to him in brothels. Everybody knew about it. Everybody turned a blind eye.

The war also showed me the meaning of solidarity. We received great support from ordinary people, especially in France, Italy and Switzerland, and without it we would not have survived. I used to think that the Swiss were people who didn't show their feelings. Well, it was the Swiss who showed us more kindness than anyone else.

Cultural life in Sarajevo was pretty dynamic, wasn't it? Musical life, theatre and publishing all went on.


Izet Sarajlic: The Latin saying whereby people fall silent when the guns roar is false. Some very fine work was produced in Sarajevo during the war. It would be a good thing if foreigners could read some of the stuff we wrote, so that they could understand that civil war is a plague, that it is contagious and that it could happen elsewhere in the world, in an even more terrible form.

In one of your books, Recueil de guerre, you say: "If I've survived all this it's thanks to poetry and to a dozen or so people, ordinary folk, true saints of Sarajevo, whom I hardly knew before the war."

Izet Sarajlic: I wrote my two war books in my cellar as shells whistled overhead. I couldn't, like Eluard, paint the word "freedom" on the walls of Sarajevo because no walls were left standing. So I said to my wife: "Look at me, I am like a late twentieth-century Milton, writing a Paradise Lost by candlelight."

But I didn't start out with the idea of writing poetry. I didn't care about poetry. It's a long time since I was interested in poetry. Just before the war, I wrote that the worst places for poetry were the very places where poetry could be found.

When I said that poetry had saved me, I meant that these extremely unhappy war years were perhaps the happiest years of my life as a poet. I was motivated, I had readers, or rather listeners. We had no paper for printing and I was not on close terms with the few publishers who had any. In any case, they specialized in pseudo-religious work and propaganda, and so I wasn't very keen on being published by them. Nevertheless, my poems reached the public, which made me very happy indeed. During the war, my literary and moral standing in the eyes of my fellow citizens seemed to be high. I saw that they wanted to help me in one way or another. They would step aside for me when we queued for water, although I naturally never took advantage of that, and they would give me a cigarette, or an apple for my grandson.

In those circumstances, poetry becomes something different, doesn't it?

Izet Sarajlic: When a man has a dressing gown, when he has enough to eat, when he can step out onto his balcony, eat cherries or drink his coffee with his own cigarette and not one he has had to beg for, then he can think about aesthetics and aestheticism. But when he's surrounded by misery and is a prey to it as well, when he finds himself completely isolated and degraded, he asks himself "Where are the simple, normal words? Have they abandoned art?"

I have had a portrait of one of my favourite poets, Boris Pasternak, in my bedroom for a long time. For me, it was a relic. It's still there, despite the three million shells that have reportedly fallen on the city. One day, when I happened to be in my bedroom and not down in the cellar, I looked at it and suddenly thought that even he, the wonderful Pasternak, no longer meant to me what he once did. So many fine words, such perfect harmony, yet nothing about my suffering, nothing about human suffering.

Has the war changed your poetry?

Izet Sarajlic: I don't think there's any fundamental difference between what I wrote before and during the war. The form may vary somewhat here and there. When shells are bursting around you, you have to get it down as quickly as you can, so you don't pay much attention to form. In any case, when you have something to say, the form chooses itself. I'm not the kind of writer who searches for a poem. A poet shouldn't do that. A poem should search for - and find - its poet.

I haven't changed and I haven't felt any need to. I got into poetry after World War II. In 1942, the Italian fascists shot my older brother. In everything I've done since, I've tried my hardest not to betray the memory of that young man. I'm now over fifty years older than he was then. He's the person I'm answerable to.

In today's super-ideological age which repudiates all previous ideologies, I stick to the position I chose at the end of what we now call the "other" war, 1939-45. That was a time when we all believed that love could be revived and we thought we had to write as if we were planting a birch tree in the municipal park or fixing a doorbell to a door. We were all in favour of love and remained faithful to it, except for some who betrayed it during this recent war.

Do you think that such idealism is still possible today?

Izet Sarajlic: I don't know. I can't think now the way I did when I was young. I'm no longer capable of being as generous as I was then. "Universal" thoughts are far from my mind. My doorstep is the limit of my world these days. I'm concerned about my wife's health, my daughter's job, my grandson's future.(1) I'm eager to redecorate my fiat and put my bedroom in order. If I write a poem or two amidst all that, well and good, but If not, too bad. Perhaps I have written enough.

A French television programme about Sarajevo and your family showed that part of your fiat had been seriously damaged.


Izet Sarajlic: One day, the Chetniks(2) shelled my flat three times. They thought they'd killed me, so they stopped firing and went away. I received a blow on the head and collapsed. When I came to, it was quite funny. A painting had fallen on top of me and I woke up with my head in the frame, like a Rembrandt!

I've known you since I was a child but I've never asked you about your religion.

Izet Sarajlic: I'm a Muslim. So what? I've never lived in a predominantly religious environment any more than any of my compatriots. I can't see people as Orthodox or Muslim or whatever. Religion may be important to some, but it's a personal matter.

I was in Strasbourg not long ago and I couldn't understand why everyone kept insisting on the fact that I was Muslim. They told me that it was important to say so. I didn't consider it to be important at all. In the same way, foreign journalists who came to Sarajevo would often ask me whether I thought that all these ethnic groups could live together. I would always answer by introducing my family to them and saying: "My wife is Catholic, her family came from Austria and our daughter married an Orthodox Christian. I hope that fifteen years from now, when the time comes for my grandson Vladimir to experience the same kind of sufferings as Goethe's young Werther, he will put his hand on the shoulder of a Jew. That would complete the family portrait."

Do you think that Bosnia has any future in the present situation?

Izet Sarajlic: I don't know. Like many people, rightly or wrongly, I support the Dayton Agreements. Yet I know that they are not the real solution. The people who are deciding the fate of Bosnia have not grasped the soul of the country, but they talk with amazing glibness about corridors, republics, federations, and so on.

There's one thing that the West doesn't understand, or doesn't want to. In Spain, we saw a dress rehearsal for Western fascism, and in Bosnia we saw the same thing for Eastern European fascism. In Spain, fascism came to power, unfortunately; as luck would have it, ours did not. But there is no proof that it has definitively failed. Anything is possible today.

Izet Sarajlic is widely regarded as Bosnia's greatest living poet. A member of the Bosnia and Herzegovina Academy of Arts and Sciences, he has published more than 15 collections of poetry and a volume of memoirs. A volume of his works was published in English under the title Poetry by Dist 136 Press, Minneapolis, in 1975. His two most recent books, written in Sarajevo during the war, have been translated into French as Le livre des adieux and Recueil de guerre sarajevien (1997).

Here he is interviewed by Jasmina Sopova. UNESCO Courier, April, 1998 by Jasmina Sopova